Пять ночей с фредди |Песня Phone Guy-Я

Song I AM THE PHONE GUY Пять ночей с фредди |Песня Phone Guy-Я - Osho The Last Testament-1-241 How to stop destruction of the world The Last Testament, Vol 1
Chapter #24
10 August 1985 pm in Jesus Grove, Oregon, US

INTERVIEW WITH MARCEL BRUYNS TROS NATIONAL TV, THE NETHERLANDS

Q:* BHAGWAN, ABOUT YOUR HEALTH. HOW ARE YOU DOING?

A:* Just great.

Q:* YOUR DISCIPLES LAUGHING IN THE BACKGROUND, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY LAUGH?

A:* Just my presence is enough for them to laugh, rejoice, sing, dance. I am here.

Q:* HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE THE MASTER OF HALF A MILLION PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD?

A:* Groovy.

Q:* BHAGWAN, YOU HAVE BEEN SILENT FOR THREE AND A HALF YEARS. WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO SPEAK UP AGAIN?

A:* Because the world is at a very great crisis. The politicians have brought the world to the ultimate destruction of this beautiful planet. It has to be stopped.

Q:* HOW CAN YOU DO THAT?

A:* Just by spreading my red people around the earth; creating more and more silence, peace, meditativeness; destroying people's old programs of being American, Russian, Indian, Dutch, German; destroying their old ideas of being Mohammedan, Christian, Jew, Hindu. Because this whole earth is ours, all the boundary lines of nations should disappear. Only then there is a guarantee there is not going to be a war in the future. I am for one world, one government. if nations are there, then war is inevitable.

Q:* BHAGWAN, RECENTLY YOU MADE AN ATTACK ON THE CHURCHES AND ON MOTHER TERESA CALLING *** CRIMINAL AND BLAMING *** FOR THE POVERTY AND THE ANGUISH IN THE THIRD WORLD. DO YOU NOT BELIEVE THAT LIFE IS GOD-GIVEN?

A:* There is no God.

Q: WHAT DO ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD BELIEVE IN, THEN?

A:* Their beliefs are blind; the very word belief means blind. If you know, you know; you do not believe. You don't believe in the sun, in the moon. You don't believe in the roses, in the trees. You believe in God. You believe in heaven. You believe in hell. Those are all fictions.

Q:* ARE YOU A GOD?

A:* No.

Q:* ... OR A MAN? YOU ARE A MAN?

A:* I am just an ordinary man.

Q:* BUT YOU ARE ENLIGHTENED.

A:* That is not much of a difference. It is just a difference between closed eyes and open eyes.

Q:* YOU BELIEVE IN POLYGAMY, BUT YOU ARE AFRAID OF OVER-POPULATION. YOU BELIEVE IN FREE ***, AND YOU ARE AFRAID OF AIDS. HOW CAN YOU PROPAGATE POLYGAMY AND FREE *** WITHOUT PROTECTING YOUR FOLLOWERS FROM AIDS?

A:* I am protecting them already; there is no question of how. First, I am not in favor of polygamy as against monogamy. I am in favor of dissolving the very institution of marriage. That is the ugliest institution that has happened to man. Marriage dissolved, there is no question of monogamy or polygamy. People are free: if they want to be together, they are together; if they don't want to be together, that is their decision. And children should be taken care of by the commune. Children should not belong to families, but to the commune. And I am taking perfect care of my people. In four years not a single child has been born in this commune.

Q:* WE KNOW BHAGWAN, THAT YOU ARE LIVING A RATHER RICH LIFE. BUT DO YOU THINK THAT LIFE IS WORTH LIVING FOR THE POOR?

A:* Those who are poor are themselves responsible for their poverty. They have believed in idiotic religious ideologies which have made them remain poor.

Q:* AND YOU DON'T WANT TO HELP THEM?

A:* They have to suffer whatsoever they have done. And if they have to punish someone, they should punish the Pope, Mother Teresa, Shankaracharya, Ayatollah Khomeini. Hang all of them: these are the people who are against birth control, against the pill, against abortion. These are the people who are increasing the population. The Pope increases the population and I am responsible for it? And those poor people listen to the Pope, not to me, so what I have to do with them?

Q:* IT DOESN'T MATTER TO YOU THAT YOU ARE INSULTING MAYBE HALF THE WORLD BY SAYING THIS?

A:* I want the world population to be reduced to one fourth. Only then can this world be comfortable, luxurious; can people live, enjoy, rejoice, create. Life can be a blessing. With this population it is a nightmare, and the responsibility goes to your religious leaders. I am not going to suffer for their crime. Neither me nor my people. We are living in comfort, in luxury. And I believe in comfort and luxury. Man has the intelligence to create more comfort than nature is capable of giving, more luxury than nature has ever intended to offer. And man should use the opportunity. These poor people who are dying in Ethiopia, in India, or anywhere, have listened to the wrong people. Now they should take revenge. They should burn the Vatican; they should take over all the churches. I am not responsible for their poverty. For thirty years I have been teaching birth control methods, abortion. And the poor people whom I have been teaching these things have been throwing stones at me, have been throwing shoes at me, have made attempts on my life. Strange reward -- I am trying to show them how to prevent becoming more and more poor, and they want to kill me. I am simply finished with all that nonsense. They should go to their Pope, to their Khomeini, to Shankaracharya and settle their things. i am concerned only with my red people and with nobody else.

Q:* DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT OUT OF YOUR MIND TO BECOME A SANNYASINS? YOU ONCE SAID THAT.

A:* Certainly. There are two ways of being out of the mind. One is falling below it; then you go into an insane asylum. The other is going above it; then you become enlightened. But both are out of mind. Hence there is a certain similarity between the madman and the Buddha. A certain similarity.

Q:* AREN'T YOU FREEZING?

A:* No.

Q:* IT IS COLD IN HERE.

A:* I love freezing.

Q:* BUT YOU HAVE BEAUTIFUL CLOTHES ON.

A:* They are not thicker than yours.

Q:* BHAGWAN, RECENTLY THE POPE OF ROME PAID A VISIT TO THE NETHERLANDS. DON'T YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO COME THERE TO SEE HOW YOUR FIVE THOUSAND DUTCH FRIENDS ARE DOING?

A:* No. I don't have any need to go anywhere.

Q:* YOU LET THEM COME TO YOU.

A:* They come here. Always the thirsty have to come to the well.

Q:* BUT YOU ONCE CALLED HOLLAND YOUR MOST ORANGE COUNTRY, SO I WONDER WHAT YOU ARE DOING IN OREGON?

A:* In Oregon I am doing something else. In Holland, even without me, the country is going to turn red; but in America my presence is needed.

Q:* BHAGWAN, YOU HAVE BEEN MAKING ATTACKS ON RONALD REAGAN SEVERAL TIMES. I NEVER HEARD YOU ABOUT THE RUSSIAN LEADERS.

A:* I simply don't know anything about the Russian leaders -- except that I am against communism.

Q:* BUT YOU DO KNOW ABOUT AFGHANISTAN AND THE RUSSIANS BEING THERE.

A:* Yes, I have heard about it. But I don't read any books, any newspapers. I have dropped all rubbish. For five years I am just without any contact with the outside world.

Q:* HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW THEN?

A:* Just my secretary.

Q:* SHE TELLS YOU?

A:* If she feels something has to be informed to me, she informs.

Q:* AND SHE DIDN'T INFORM YOU ABOUT THE RUSSIAN LEADERS DOING ALMOST THE SAME BUT THEM IN ANOTHER ANGLE AS THE WESTERN LEADERS?

A:* She has never informed me about the Russian leaders. One thing I know is that they are not hypocrites; they are openly dictatorial. They believe in the dictatorship of the proletariat so whatsoever they do, they do it without hiding themselves behind beautiful words. America talks about democracy, but that is only talk.

Q:* WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN YOU LEAVE THIS PLANET, BHAGWAN? WILL THERE BE ANOTHER BHAGWAN?

A:* I don't know, and neither do I care. When I was not here the world was not missing me.

Q:* BUT NOW THAT YOU ARE HERE, YOUR SANNYASINS WILL MISS YOU WHEN YOU ARE GONE.

A:* Only my sannyasins will miss me.

Q:* SO WILL THERE BE ANOTHER MASTER?

A:* No. Nobody can replace me; nobody can be my successor. I am making it absolutely clear that we are not to create another Christianity, another popedom, another Vatican. No. My sannyasins are related to me: Drink as much as you can from my well, and when my life disappears you are free to live the way you want. There is nobody going to dominate you, order you, discipline you. I am against all discipline, against all commandments. My whole emphasis is on the respect of the individual and his freedom. Even if he wants to go to hell, nobody should interfere. So when I am gone, you see only from one side: when I die, you all have died to me.

Q:* WE HEARD THIS STORY OF THE REVEREND JIM JONES WHO ORDERED HIS FOLLOWERS TO COMMIT SUICIDE. YOU ONCE SAID THAT WHEN YOU WILL GO, MANY WILL FOLLOW. DO YOU MEAN THIS AS A MASS SUICIDE?

A:* I am not a Christian. I am not a Reverend Jim Jones.

Q:* YOU DON'T WANT YOUR DISCIPLES TO FOLLOW YOU WHEN YOU ARE DEAD?

A:* No, never. I want them to live and live abundantly. And when I am gone, I want them to celebrate *** because we celebrate everything: defeat or victory, life or death. Celebrate, dance, enjoy.

Q:* IS THERE A LIFE AFTER LIFE? AFTER DEATH? A LIFE AFTER DEATH?

A:* Yes, there is. But unless you experience it, my answer will be only a belief to you. I know it, but I don't want anybody to believe in my knowledge. I can help my people to come to the point from where they also can know. And that is one of my basic tenets: unless you know, don't believe: doubt to the very end till you come to know. And when you know, there is no need to believe. I don't believe in life after death -- I know.

Q:* DO YOU MIND WHEN THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT DO BELIEVE?

A:* I mind because their belief will prevent them from knowing. They have moved in a wrong direction.

Q:* YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE AWAY HOPE FROM THE PEOPLE, DO YOU?

A:* I want to take away all hope from people. Every hope. Because hope is the opium that all the religions have been supplying to the people.

Q:* WHAT IS IT, THEN, THAT PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE WHEN THEY MAY NOT HAVE HOPE?

A:* This moment is enough. Hope is for those who are unable to live this moment, those who are suffering and are in misery. They need hope; they only think of tomorrow. My people live today. And tomorrow never comes, it always comes as today. They know the secret of how to live today, so they will be knowing the secret anywhere, anytime.
Ethiopia needs hope. India needs hope. Poor countries need hope. Retarded people need hope. Miserable couples need hope that in heaven everything will be perfectly good: your wife will not be nagging you there. Your children will not become hippies there. They will not start taking drugs and dropping out of the university there. You need hope. I am giving to my people the reality; hope is only a fantasy. The sick man needs hope for health. But why should the healthy man need hope for health? He is already healthy.

Q:* IS THE MESSAGE YOU ARE BRINGING ONLY FOR SANNYASINS, ONLY FOR 500,000 OF YOUR DISCIPLES? OR DO YOU WANT TO BRING THIS MESSAGE TO MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD?

A:* I don't want anything. My people are there. I have not searched for them, they have come to me. Those who are in need, they should seek me. If they are not in need -- get lost -- it is none of my concern.

Q:* HOW DO YOU LIKE MY TIE? THIS WAS THE ONLY RED THING THAT I COULD FIND?

A:* That is the only color I hate. I never use red.

Q:* YOU MUST LOVE SHEELA.

A:* Sheela I love, but not the red color.

Q:* SHE IS RED AND ALL YOUR DISCIPLES ARE RED.

A:* That is why I have given red colors to them -- because that is the only color I will never use.

Q:* SO NONE OF YOUR CARS IS RED, EITHER?

A:* There are a few cars which are red, but I am sitting inside and I don't see them.

Q:* YOU ARE A VERY WISE MAN.

A:* Of course. The wisest who has walked on this earth.

Q:* IS THIS CLIMATE FINE FOR YOU, BHAGWAN? MUCH BETTER THAN IN INDIA?

A:* Much better in every way. The water is clean, pure. In India it is difficult to find water which is not polluted. Just the other day I was informed that in India half the crops are eaten by rats and other animals. And the people, fifty percent of India's people, are almost starving. Whatsoever they eat, half of it is eaten by bugs in their stomach. So almost three fourths of their production goes to the animals or to the bugs. All rivers are polluted. Here, we have the purest water possible, the cleanest air possible. And we have enough land, space, 126 square miles. It is three times larger than New York City.

Q:* ARE YOU CREATING A WONDER HERE IN THE DESERT, BHAGWAN?

A:* Certainly. An oasis I am creating. And we have already succeeded much. When we came four years ago, there was only one house -- that was all. Now we have houses for five thousand people, fully equipped with everything modern. All the houses are centrally air-conditioned. The air is dry; that is what has helped me most. Because I suffer from asthma, humidity is a trouble for me. And I suffer from all kinds of allergies which are not curable. No allergy is curable; you have just to protect yourself against it. So here we have managed everything. My people have done everything so that for four years I had not suffered from any allergy. My back was bad in India, and in India they could not manage to do anything. Experts from England were called, the best expert. He also could not figure it out. But strangely -- I have used all kinds of cars available in the whole world -- just one car Silver Spur by Rolls Royce, fits to my back.

Q:* IS THIS A COMMERCIAL, BHAGWAN?

A:* I am absolutely a business man.

Q:* BUT YOU HAVE ALREADY NINETY. WHY WOULD YOU HAVE MORE?

A:* Three hundred sixty-five soon.

Q:* EVERY DAY ANOTHER ONE?

A:* Yes.

Q:* AND YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEM AWAY TO THE POOR PEOPLE, I UNDERSTOOD.

A:* No. Never.
Q:* I KNOW, BUT CAN YOU GIVE THE POOR PEOPLE THEN MAYBE A BIT OF UNDERSTANDING, A BIT OF LOVE?

A:* I have given them for thirty years and in return they have given me poison, they have thrown knives at me. I am finished with all that nonsense. These Rolls Royces will go to my sannyasins, not to anybody else

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Osho The Last Testament-1-24(1) How to stop destruction of the world